Show Notes: Deep Work, Digital Minimalism, and the Key to a Happy Retirement

I have been a longtime subscriber of The Mad FIentist and he recently did an interview with Cal Newport of Deep Work fame. Cal just released his latest book Digital Minimalism and this interview was a goldmine.

My notes are below along with the timestamp of where that topic starts in the podcast. This is not a transcript just my interpretation of the interview. When a block of text is italicized, that's me paraphrasing.

Listen to the full episode here: https://www.madfientist.com/cal-newport-interview/

0:00 Why Cal Newport on this podcast? His work has been incredibly influential to Brandon (The Mad FIentist) who has FIRE'd and helps ask and guide you on those questions of what to do with your time once you're free from work.

There are a lot of people in the FIRE community who believe all they need to do is retire and then they'll be happy.

2:48 On pursuing your 'passion.' The pursuit of passion is overrated and the advice of 'follow your passion' is trite and overdone.

So how do people end up loving what they do? As kids you're sold this bill of goods. 'Oh if you just follow your passion you'll be fine' but research doesn't support that people have preexisting passions waiting to be discovered.

I'm an operations professional who has fallen deep into Salesforce — I can vouch for this being true.

5:48 If passion is bogus, then what? Happiness comes from getting good at something not doing something you think you like (it's the craftsman mindset vs. the passion mindset).

People who report high satisfaction at work experience autonomy, competence, and relatedness.

7:24 Don't ask people for advice, ask them for their story.

8:09 So FIRE enthusiasts might be misguided in 'rushing to the finish line?' Most definitely, yes because they are probably giving up career capital and the work that actually might make them happy.

What are you trying to get to? That you have these passions and if you just had more time to do them you'd be happy? Well that isn't what the research says.

There isn't a term for it (maybe I'll try to invent it, how about Flex FIRE) but instead of focusing on stopping work, try to get so good that you have flexibility and focus on work you want.

Autonomy + Impact + Competence = Happiness

11:03 Okay, so we need to get good at something... This is where Deep Work comes in.

Shutting down email, putting away Twitter, etc. It's incredible how much you can get done when you shut off the distractions.

High Quality Work = Time Spent + Intensity of Focus

I personally am amazed with how much I can get done in just an hour when I put my head down, listen to Lo-Fi Beats, and have my phone physically away.

A formula that works is batching deep work. So work undistracted for 2–3 hours and you'll really get a lot done.

15:22 Less work & more relaxation doesn't actually make us happier — which is sort of a troubling concept for the FIRE movement.

Choice quotes from Deep Work: 'Relaxation does not result in happiness.' 'People are happier at work.' 'More flow experiences = more life satisfaction.'

So all of the above could be at odds with the FIRE movement which basically wants to work as hard as possible so they can relax forever.

People actually like doing hard, meaningful things. Cal spoke with Mr. Money Mustache and The Frugalwoods — these are people who retired but still work hard on things they care about.

High quality leisure is key for satisfaction. So Cal recently picked back up guitar playing — a quintessential quality leisure activity: high-skill, requires concentration, not easy to do, yet very rewarding.

19:35 Skillful management of attention and choosing what you pay attention to.

There is so much stuff flying around out there and so your world is really constructed based on what you are concentrating on.

21:50 Maybe I buy these claims about technology in our professional life but what about technology in my personal life? Thus Digital Minimalism was born.

A lot of Cal's writing is focused on work, but people are addicted to their screens in their personal life as well.

So Marie Kondo is helping you declutter your physical life and Cal's book is helping you declutter your digital life.

And once the 30 days are over, you evaluate each app and thing you want to bring back into your digital life.

This is a small example but I deleted my Snapchat account a couple years ago. I only sometimes used it but I still felt a pull to check it. I deleted it and sure I might be missing out on some stuff but on the whole it was a positive change.

20:42 Connection between digital minimalism and the health and fitness industry.

Cal has never suggested a 'plan' for his readers prior to this 30 day digital detox. The people who are most successful with health usually have a strong guiding philosophy (keto, vegan, paleo, etc).

32:00 Downsides of social media.

People are constantly looking at their phone and we are making the mistake that it is the phone that has us addicted but that's not actually true. It's the applications on the phone that have created this.

Facebook was coming to their IPO and couldn't figure out how to make money. This is because social media was a static experience prior to them re-engineering it. The variable reward feature was imported from slot machines.

We don't need the constant companion model of social media.

37:50 Impact of social media on young people and our mental health.

Cal spoke to a woman who worked in mental health services for college kids and she said that she has tons more kids coming in related to anxiety.

Jean Twenge wrote a book on this called iGen where she measured how the rise of mental health issues between Gen Z and Millennials and the key factor between the two was that Gen Z had widespread smartphones.

So the message we get out of this experiment is that our brain is not meant for this kind of consistent behavior.

But one thing worth mentioning: It's hard to fill your time when you don't have digital distraction. A lot of people use social media as a crutch so they don't have to face the void, face themselves, think about their life.

Figuring out what you want to do with your life is harder than you think, especially if you don't have the crutch of the screen.

For the FIRE crowd: You don't want to work this hard to be 'free' just to be scrolling and refreshing a screen.

46:30 What's one piece of advice you'd give to someone who is pursuing financial independence? Skill is your greatest weapon. If you relentlessly hone a skill that is very valuable you will generate more financial options.